Nota : Desafortunadamente, el Q&A no se filmó, pero el audio está
Preguntas para Wi of Change en
Tenga en cuenta: para la nota clave no habrá tiempo para preguntas.
Allan va a hacer un Q & A como y presidente de la junta OSMF el día de
hoy a las 19:00 GMT en https://osmvideo.cloud68.co/user/all-m3n-e6n .
para obtener detalles sobre cómo unirse.
Si lo desea, puede hacer preguntas aquí para que Allan las vea más
adelante en las Preguntas y respuestas. Agrega preguntas aquí.
- [HECHO] Me gustaría desafiar la idea de que la descentralización y
la visión son opuestas o incompatibles.
- [HECHO] ¿Qué lo llevó a concluir que los mapeadores de naves se
oponen universalmente al cambio, mientras que las partes interesadas
comerciales quieren un cambio universal?
- [HECHO] ¿Cómo se asegura de que las “voces fuertes” no descarrilen
- ML / AI: ¿No comenzaron todas las áreas con vastas áreas no mapeadas
y pocos contribuyentes? En la vida real, esperaría que las
características asignables escalen con la población, al igual que
con los posibles mapeadores.
- [HECHO] Voces altas: ¿hablaste con voces que no eran fuertes en
tus charlas? ¿Cómo elegiste con quién hablar y con quién no?
- [HECHO] Usted señala que el peso de la opinión / voz de alguien no
debe definirse por su “soltura”: ¿cuáles cree que deberían ser los
criterios para decidir qué peso le dan a una opinión / voz aquellos
que están en una posición de ¿tomando decisiones?
- [HECHO] Cuando dices “la comunidad”, ¿incluyes voces corporativas
- Me encantaría escuchar la respuesta a eso. La charla parece
implicar que la respuesta a eso es ‘sí’.
- “Mi opinión es que la comunidad está formada por todos los que
creen que están en la comunidad. Cuando contribuyen. ¿Tienen una
voz más grande? No. ¿Prevalecerá su POV? Probablemente no, la
comunidad es bastante grande”.
- [DONE] Allan says that the full SWOT analysis can be found on the
Wiki, and that he can send it by email. Is the full analysis the
same as https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/apm-wa/diary/392767, or
are there additional resources to review?
- [DONE] Regarding role of businesses in OSM: on one hand we have
the extreme example (as far as I know, to date without a
satisfactory resolution) of GlobalLogic who directed financial
resources to gain voting power in OSMFB. But we also have a lot of
other companies whose intentions are less obvious - either because
they are in fact less nefarious, or because, learning from
GlobalLogic’s example, they are spreading their OSMF membership
registration more thinly so that even the amazing Membership WG
can’t pick it up. Personally, I believe the reason OSM is so great
is that it is not motivated by money, but driven by volunteers. I
oppose corporate involvement in OSM and OSMF not just under the
GlobalLogic model, but also more apparently benign models (such as
having employees of companies benefitting financially from OSM
sitting on OSMF board). As someone more articulate than me put it,
“If the OSMF (…) allows GlobalLogic or any other corporation to
take over OSM for its own purposes, all my mapping work to that
point, intended to benefit a much larger community, will have been
for naught, and they idea that my work will then benefit only
GlobalLogic will make me rather angry.”
). So my question is: what measures
can we have in place, what is being done, what can I do, to ensure
the OSM project continues being open and volunteer-driven, while
allowing for a healthy relationship with powerful corporations?
- Empower local chapters and communities.
- These companies understand our volunteer-driven model and do not
want to touch the spring of this data they’re using and valuing.
A bigger threat might be someone from outside that group.
- [DONE] You mention white male dominance in your talk - does this
(race and sex/gender) in your opinion constitute the most severe or
the most significant dimensions of the lack of diversity in the OSM
- “I don’t know the answer to that question. I would argue that
geographic diversity is probably as important. We need more on
the grounds activity and communities on the ground to protect
the foundation from a hostile takeover.”
- [DONE] You are speaking of ‘opposition to machine learning and
artificial intelligence in Western Europe’. Could you elaborate on
what this refers to? Is it possible that you have misunderstood
opposition to a certain practice of using technology to generate
data with questionable connection to the observable reality and no
or limited control of the mappers over the technology as principal
opposition to a technology in general here?
- “I talked to people in Europe and also in East-Asia, South-Asia,
Africa, Latin-America. In these latter regions I did not hear
this opposition. In fact, in some places, these tools are even
viewed as necessary. In Europe there’s a stronger focus on
- “I don’t think I misunderstood. I think the key is that it has
to be a decision of the local community. If they can assert
quality control. E.g. checking that ditches and roads are
correctly classified. I think it’s more a question of who’s in
control of the map. And the local mappers are.”
- [DONE] Re. Vector Tiles - have you asked current developers of
community map styles on input on the future of community map
design? What map users want is one thing, priorities and needs of
qualified volunteers is another.
- Do you consider the OSMF paying people for work in that domain?
- “There are a lot of questions we and the community need to
answer before we can move forward on this. E.g.: what should
they look like, should we compete with commercial providers…”
- [DONE] What are you thoughts on Usergroup instead of Chapter ? In
some countries running a govt approved legal entity like chapter is
very difficult ? – naveenpf
- “We’ve talked about that. We’re going to look to the local
commnities to tell us how they want that to happen. India isn’t
the only place this is happening. Local communities should talk
to us, if local chapters aren’t going to work, tell us what
- “if you would like work to happen on a “local chapter light
version”, please join the LCCWG it’s on our agenda there” -
- [DONE] “If there is a common goal, then conflicts can be
solved.” —Eli Goldratt, father of the Theory of Constraints - What
is the common goal of the OSM?
- “There’s a line on the OSMF website: “We want to create a map of
the world that everyone can use”. Or a database, as Frederik
said, but that’s less understandable, so we go with a simplified
phrase. But this is the common goal. I agree with Frederik on
- With each imagery set several meters different than each other, the
more we edit the more damage we do to the map. So yes please get
some “good datum imagery” that we can finally edit with.. (Maybe in
developed countries this is not a problem.)
- “Yes, please, this drives me crazy too. The imagery is all
donated. It has to do with the orthorectification which is not
100% accurate. This is why you can drag backgrounds in the
editors. This is why I’m glad that in Turkmenistan I collected
an aweful lot of GPX traces. I’m not sure there is a solution to
this, this is a complex technical issue.”
- Yes I slide the maps… damaging it even more…
[Questions asked during the Q&A with Allan are below this point]
- [DONE] Do you have a breakdown of OSMF members by country or
continent? (asked by Janet Chapman)
- “No”. Altough others pointed out this had been looked at in the
past, see https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/imagico/diary/391322
- Follow up question: Should the board ensure that all continents
are represented then? (in the board) - Janet
- I worked in government that had de facto quotas, and it never
really worked. I would rather see a more organic growth in the
geographic diversity of the board. I would like to see more
people in the special groups we’re setting up and then have them
run for the board too.
- [DONE] What are the “threats” to OSM in the future? E.g.,
Presidential order shutting it down., Evil empires’ troops secretly
deleting edits, etc. Anything? Legal action from Google for who
knows what. Better back it up in several different jurisdictions.
- I don’t see threats from Google or the other empires trying to
shut us down. The threats I see is a hostile takeover from
someone in the corporate area that isn’t yet part of our
ecosystem and doesn’t understand that a hostile takeover would
damage our project. I don’t see any likely threats.
- [DONE] Do you think that the OSM intellectual property is not
currently protected enough from your comments in the talk earlier? -
- “I think from a legal standpoint it’s protected well enough.
This is something where the local chapters can be helpful too. A
local chapter came to us for permission to sue an entity that
was violating our license. I think this is a good thing.”
- [DONE] What about sovereign or national threats to OSM - are these
a possibility in your opinion? - Guy
- “I suppose it’s possible that a country could sue us because
they don’t like something in the data. I think it’s a low
probability and I think it would be hard for them to do. The map
is in a state of flux, it would be easier for them to go in and
edit the map and tag it properly.”
- [DONE] The topic of what should be on openstreetmap.org comes up
from time to time - as in should the homepage show something othre
than the map (e.g. links to local communities, beginner info, etc).
What thoughts do you have on this? Is the Microcosms work in
progress the start of something bigger?
- “I don’t really have a view on that. I thought about what
Frederik said about that about what they’d done in […], it
was pretty interesting. I think that it would be good to have
links to the local communities. I find it good that the iD has
this information. But should this be on osm.org? I’ll leave that
to web designers and people who understand this a lot better
- [DONE] Gee, you talk like a CEO (and I like that) But CEOs need
big salaries. As I understand it you are just a volunteer (good
too). So you might say OSM is your “hobby” (good too.)?
- At a talk I gave at SotM 2016, I explained why I got involved
with OSM. It became more than a hobby, it actually became part
of my work plan as ambassador in Turkmenistan. [Link to the
keynote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t5DxV7cXgQ ]
- I’m retired, I can live off my pension.
- [DONE] I think we need to have a debate about use of AI in the
future of OSM and discuss the benefits to the project - Guy
- My take is that this is up to the local communities. As the
foundation, we don’t tell people how to map.
- [DONE] I think it would be beneficial to assist with the tedious
jobs such as plotting building outlines which take much time but
offer advantages perhaps?
- An armchair mapper drew a highway where there was a creek.
There’s a place for AI, but that place needs to be complemented
with on the ground knowledge. Only a local mapper can tell you
whether your assumption about what you’re looking at is correct.
- Turkmenistan? Boy I bet they clamp down on their national data bad.
- What do you do when you can’t zoom in past zoom level XX and can’t
convince the carto people that people think their mouse must be
- The debate re paid mappers is an interesting one that came up last
year at the SOTM - with the idea that in developing countries this
could be helpful. - Guy
- My personal view is that OSMF should not pay for mapping.
- Does that mean you don’t support the micro grants? - Erica
- “No, I support the micro grant system”
- What does the next 12 months look like for the board? - Rob
- Should OSMF have paid staff. We’re down to 2 sysadmins, both
volunteers. We’re looking at 50% growth in data use, what do we
need to do so that the platform remains stable and there for
what we want it for. The 2nd priority is the geographic
expansion of the community. Thats going to be plenty for us to
Comments (not questions)