- Please sign your comments
- How to explain it to 6 million users? OpenStreetMAP is not a map and
the website where you see a map can not be used as any normal map.
+1 (Only 6 million? Viewers too?)
- How to keep them interested and excited to contribute more
without a good and functional website?
- [DONE] How about Allan Mustard’s views. And debate between you and
- (note - I would love for a true debate on the versions of OSM
the project and community. And, if we could add some
voices/opinions from Asia, Africa, or South America, that would
be great too.)
- The data seems outside of the point. Google Maps is a product, with
definite end users identified and goals. We don’t even have a
consistent understanding of the users for the website. Isn’t that
what confuses people about OSM? How can we better communicate what
OSM is about?
- [DONE] How much of your talk is OSM policy vs your personal
- [DONE] Has anyone ever seriously argued that OSM should include
promotional blurb for businesses, like the dentist example you gave?
- Answer (in Q&A session; paraphrased) “No, but I have deleted
- [DONE] Why couldn’t OSM also be a “business directory”?
- users need to know where is the dentist, the grocery… when
it is opened…
- See the the success of Ça Reste Ouvert during the COVID-19
- Admit it, phone number tags mean you are more than just a
map. (Good thing too.)
- [DONE] Why is there an ‘us’ and ‘them’ approach in how people use
OSM? Whether is it is civic tech or humanitarian, surely there is
just ‘human’ engagement with the project?
- lol – I think this question was referring to Frederik’s
- [DONE] Should the OSMF being working with press to counter-act
these misconceptions or at least attempt to have as much press
coverage as HOT? (+2)
- [DONE] Couldn’t OSM as a whole attract just as much or more
funding as the humanitarian groups do, except that OSMF has not
wanted this funding?
- [DONE] Have you ever visited a mapping community in Africa? South
America? Asia? +2-1
- Why does this view of OSM - the project and the community not take
into account the different approaches and contexts of local
- Hey wait a second. Who gets to say what OSM “is” and “isn’t” any why
define it “so fast” in the first place?
- OK, you’ve got great ideas. But are you ever changed any since you
joined OSM ever or are they the same from day 1?? ?
- [DONE] Why did you go against the on the ground rule in Crimea?
- Can you give a single example of an AI mapping proponent who has
said that the community inputs are not important? Just one please.
- http://mike.teczno.com/notes/openstreetmap-at-a-crossroads.html -
“Left to the craft wing, OSM will slide into weekend irrelevance
within 5-10 years” There you go.
- eh – don’t see the equivalence in those statements
- This statement clearly indicates that the “craft wing” is a
sub-set of the community at large, so it’s not a good
example of an AI mapping proponent saying that community
inputs are not important.
- “<group> will doom OSM” = “these people are
- “<group> will doom OSM” is a misqoute; the
true quote is “<group> would doom OSM if
<circumstace> applied” - it was an arguement
against <circumstace>, not <group>
- “If we only have <group> things will get
really bad” = “<group> is not important”
- No, it is not; it is <group B> is also
requried”; consider: “if you only consume
water, you will die”
- Facebook’s first attempt of AI/CV import was done without
telling anyone https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17856687
- 4 years ago….
- The question didn’t have a time limit ;)
- Clever way to get around answering the real question
- The question had explicit “just one” request
- Which you have failed to provide.
- This is like arguing with a biblical
fundamentalist about contradictions in the
bible! You can twist anything into anything.
- I invoke Arkell v. Pressdram
- Let’s reset: Is there evidence that the
proponents of AI based mapping are not
supportive of community mapping at present?
- The evidence has been provided. Are you
really trying to have a good faith,
genuine conversation? ;)
- No evdinece has been given, that
satisfies the request “Can you give
a single example of an AI mapping
proponent who has said that the
community inputs are not
- Yes. Are there current examples. Not 4
year old ones
- That’s a different question
- ↑ stop. This is a silly thread.
- I like levels
- Me too
- But this is getting
- this guy needs to understand make
research on how HOT has been very
good to communities, African
communities have grown cause of
support from HOT
- I don’t think he only references
HOT. you are conflating
- how much research does Fredrick do??
Frederick can usually be found on IRC and is hosting a BBB “Virtual Pub
Meet” session tomorrow, you could chat to him there. We can also look
forward to him perha
- “openstreetmap.org is not aimed at the public (but at mappers)” Well
the public can see it more and more all over the place… For every
1 mappers that see it, there are 100regular people who see it when
looking at e.g., government websites that have chosen it as their
- As I know: instead of “we are not a map (but a database)” We are
an ecosystem ( community of mappers + database + developers +
companies + AI algorithms ) .. in this priority orders .. imho:
We need New Values ! and need a New OSM Manifesto !
- “why the OSM community is often skeptical about filling an empty map
with data imports, about AI contributions, or about automatic
edits” - parts of the OSM community; please don’t presume to speak
- Sure, OSM on its own is NOT a “competitor of Google Maps”… and you
outline the points clearly as to why it’s not. However, OSM is a
major and necessary part of (or perhaps powering?) a larger
ecosystem of tools/data/products that together are a
substitute/competitor/superior product to Google Maps for certain
regions of the world and certainly for specific purposes (i.e.
humanitarian applications or routing (in some areas)).
- There’s no reason we can not show more than “control” of borders.
It’s just a tagging problem.
- Alas, local hothead OSM leaders define what is on the ground
(language of place names in Taiwan).
- HOT does a lot of good work to train people on the ground so that
they can make and maintain their own maps; the comments made in this
presentation seem to be a gross misrepersenattion +1
- Reply: yes, but not everyone working in humanitarian mapping
does this, and it’s a newer phenomenon for many. It’s a fair
- That wasn’t the point the speaker made; he mis-described HOT
as a whole, single, entity +1-1
- Is HOT not a single entity?
- not according to “not everyone working in
humanitarian mapping does this”
- Everyone working in humanitarian mapping is not a
part of HOT…
- the original point - which you said was “fair” -
was about HOT.
- Oh by the speaker? I did not hear him speak
only re: HOT but outside of that it is a
fair point…As well even HOT has made a lot
of changes over the years.
- Pretty dismissive attitude towards humanitarian mapping. “Rich
- -1 (it was an example, don’t have to take everything
- It was stated literally. but as an exampe, it would have
been a dismissibve one.
- Yes very partronising Rich countries giving maps to poorer
- So you don’t think that rich college kids do a lot of
- #NotAllHumanitarianMappers: srsly? 🙄
- Fairly colonialist approach and tone about ‘for africa rather than
- I don’t think that is what the speaker said, he was critiquing
that approach. Or did I mis hear?
- I don’t think the speaker has a good idea of how HOT works and
how OSM works outside of Germany
- The terms “ground” and “field” are often considered limiting in
terms of power and equality.
- Frederik’s “straw man voice” (the vocal inflection he uses when
putting word in other people’s mouths) is a very ineffective
rhetorical choice. I’m having trouble tracking which things are his
opinions and which things are the opinions he ascribes to others.
- There is no one way to OSM - there are many. The tone about
‘humanitarian mapping’ and/or ‘mapping in africa’ misses that the
way that people engage in the project and the community is diverse -
thus a global community. The filter used here should not be
considered “FACT” but a version. I hope that people can give space
for other versions more.
- “You are entitled to your own opinions - but not your own facts”
- Yes, ever since Google started charging, lots of websites switched
to OSM: Thus indeed a competetor to Google maps. -jidanni
- Allan is not new to OSM. He has done his research.
- we can map a path on a private backyard that we can not see from
outside, but we can not map a shop without an outside sign?
- Nice to catch the habit. Inclusive language is important. :-)